Curse

plastichead · Apr 02, 2006, 07:12 PM // 19:12

I just got all my veratas skills and attribute points and want to farm tombs with a barrage pet group as MM. I've been practicing on the ettins outside of Beetletun (solo).

Here is the build I am thinking of:
death: 16
healing: 9
soul reaping: 10

bone horrors
blood of the master
veratas sacrifice
heal area
rotting flesh
deathly swarm
soul feast
rebirth

Any suggestions for a barrage pet MM? i have done this run several times as a ranger b4, so I know the way.

[edit]I also have the scar pattern armor from droks as well as the bloodstained boots (which I belive were fixed recently).

Gcool · Apr 02, 2006, 11:53 PM // 23:53

its seems ok u should prbly team with some rangers and another necro thats dedicated to the healing of the minions and one that just makes the minions that way u can both do w/e the hell u want.

Evilsod · Apr 03, 2006, 12:06 AM // 00:06

I normally play Order for B/P teams, the way i see it the MM dropping points into healing prayers is a waste, let the order do it. I use 10 in Healing Prayers and always bring Area for minions.

You really need both fiends and horrors though and when it comes to Rotting Flesh, the only time you might really need to be assisting with damage by DoT is with skels, at which point Disease doesnt work anyway so bring Well of Suffering. There are many situations in which a -6 degen well for a fairly good length of time outdos a single fiend.

I'm never really sure what elite to bring though, i've tried:
Aura of the Lich <--- just gets you owned by degen
Offering of Blood <---- the most helpful 1 but dropping the points in reaping would probably make me worse off...

I've considered taking Echo to keep VS up aslong as i can.

*edit* Forgot about Death Nova, B/P teams love exploding pets

plastichead · Apr 03, 2006, 03:14 PM // 15:14

awesome ,thanks for the advice

suiraCLAW · Apr 03, 2006, 03:55 PM // 15:55

Glyph of renewal is a good elite: constant verata sac = 11 extra secs of 10 health regen on all minions...

bobrath · Apr 03, 2006, 04:16 PM // 16:16

Any of the MM builds discussed in these forms will work just fine in Tombs as long as you play to their strengths. (and you can read about those strengths in the other threads).

As far as Tombs go (and I run that one far too much):
As stated above you need both horrors and Fiends. It gives you two levels of meat shields. Essential because the dryders will drop your horrors (unless you've got some of the smarter rangers that actually biring interrupts with them). When the horrors go down, grasps will charge your party and without fiends they'll just come straight for you.
I actually like Summon Minions over Summon Horrors since it increases your meat shield ability - and that's your primary role in Tombs: keep summons between the mobs and your party. Minions + Fiends is energy intensive tho so it will take a bit more finesse to get working.
To make room for Summon Fiends, I'd suggest dropping Rebirth. Your rangers and the monk (and perhaps the orders necro) will have the ability to rez. I have only had a single run where I was the last person left - and that happened on the first map cause the majority of the rangers all decided to pull DIFFERENT GROUPS. sigh.

Rotting Flesh - replace this with Death Nova. Pets are there to die. Summons will die. Heck pullers die sometimes too. Why not drop 100+ damage + poison on the mobs? Its saved my butt a few times (and its very easy to spam while the ranger drop their spirits).

Soul Feast - Any time you use a corpse for something other then summoning - imo you're wasting that corpse. If you and your summons are doing their job, a monk is the most bored person on your team! There's nothing for him to heal but the two self saccing Necros. In any situation where you'd use Soul Feast (and its 1 second cast time) is one where you should be running away. I'd replace this with Vamp Gaze. Yes Vamp Gaze - even at level 1 (you do have a blood rune on right?) it will steal 18 points which is more damage then your staff will do! Its a token damage spell that you'll rarely use, but its better then Soul Feast (and any of the wells) Oh yeah and you've got Heal Area which is a self heal anyway...

Don't worry about asking others to heal your minions. If a nice ranger wants to drop Healing Spring or a Heal Area that's all fine. There are enough bodies dropping in tombs that you'll have more then enough summons to keep a good meat shield up. Just always have Veratas Sac cast as soon as it come available.

ump · Apr 03, 2006, 04:32 PM // 16:32

There are many different ways to go minion master. Here is one of them.

Death: 12+3+1=16
Soul: 9+1=10
Healing: 9
Curses: leftovers (something like 2+1=3)

1) Enfeebling Blood - AoE weakness that lasts long enough on its own even with minimal curses. However, it's mostly to setup the next spell.
2) Virulence - It shouldn't be that hard to set this up in your group with Enfeebling Blood, Death Nova, Throw Dirt, Dust Trap, and possibly others in the group. However, this becomes a great degen (-8 from disease and poison) to bring something down quick (especially wurms or a grasp that managed to break through).
3) Animate Bone Horror - the cheaper body blocker.
4) Animate Bone Fiends/Minions - more body blocking with fiends prefered so all your minions don't die to a single uninterrupted AoE spell. You must have two animates because you don't want to leave a body on the ground.
5) Verata's Sacrifice - the best way to keep minions alive.
6) Heal Area - self heal and occasional minion healer.
7) Free slot (but I use Shadow of Fear so the grasps attack less and do less damage).
8) Death Nova - enchant the pets (easier to target) so when they die there is a nice AoE poison.

Sure there is not a continous Verata's Sacrifice to keep the minions alive longer, but there are plenty of bodies to replenish. I don't like to rely on a monk to keep me alive, especially if I manage to stay out of trouble. The curses, even at such a low level, are very useful to keep the grasps less than efficient.

bobrath · Apr 03, 2006, 05:00 PM // 17:00

Not sure that you'd want disease out there... causes more need for healing on your minions and pets and rangers. Its an interesting idea tho.

Plus once disease hits your minions, your next VS will disease you. Ick.

Why did you leve out Blood of The Master?

and I'd never run both minions and horrors. You need the spread of two groups to absorb dryder minion destruction.

GooD KaRmA · Apr 03, 2006, 05:24 PM // 17:24

I run a similar build as Ump but I like to equip Enfeeble to make sure I get a condition.

1. Bone Fiends-real damage dealers and good meat shields
2. Bone Horros-cheaper meat shield
3. Verata's Sacrifice
4. Healing Spring-Heals 45 every 2 seconds for 10 seconds 225 heal area
5. Enfeeble-I use this on the grasps and it really seems to help keep minions alive
6. Virulence-8 down arrows on 1 and 4 down any nearby plus weakens them
7. Blood of the Master, Winnowing, pet, troll ungent kind of a free for all
8. Rez signet

I also have been so sick of rangers not interrupting meteor showers and siege attacks that I equipped a bow and took barrage, I know it's silly but it does pretty good damage anyways plus it's fun to do something before the first enemy or pet falls. I take distracting shot to at least get 1 interrupt on a dryder or wurm. By doing this tho I had no way to heal myself since I put 10 into marksmanship and took taste of death for emergencies. Of course I'm running a N/R and the N/Mo Virulence build sounds more suitable for your build. As he was saying it's nice to have an order necro bring heal area, but you can't count on it. I also run a super soul reaping in tombs for the extra 2 energy per kill, I've found that what kills me with 470 life will kill me with 400 life 1 second later

Enfeeble and Virulence combined with a 5 good barrages makes for about 30 maintained minions until the first nuke that is. Oh and the disiease doesn't transfer to your minions for a whole line of reasons.

Evilsod · Apr 03, 2006, 05:35 PM // 17:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by suiraCLAW

Glyph of renewal is a good elite: constant verata sac = 11 extra secs of 10 health regen on all minions...

Oh yeah....totally forgot about that skill for an MM! Would be better than Echo too *goes off to cap Renewal on N/E*

Garka Dark · Apr 03, 2006, 05:40 PM // 17:40

If I were you, I'd change to N/Me, for Archane Echo, and put your healing attributes into Blood Magic and bring Offering Of Blood. Most people say N/Mo is what you NEED to be a MM, that's completely false, as Blood Of The Master + Veretas Sacrifice is enough to keep any amount of Horros/Fiends alive. Good luck MM'ing.

bobrath · Apr 03, 2006, 05:49 PM // 17:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by GooD KaRmA

Oh and the disiease doesn't transfer to your minions for a whole line of reasons.

Really? Well snap. That's good to know. Gonna go test it out - but I guess you're saying that disease doesn't jump from foe to friend?

ump · Apr 03, 2006, 07:23 PM // 19:23

Don't turn this into another N/X is better than N/Y minion master thread. Most every class has something valuable to offer to a minion master and clearly one is not better than another because there is always discussion without a conclusive choice in the end. The reason I personally went N/Mo is because the original poster is currently N/Mo. Also, the list that I proposed isn't too far from his own, so he should be familiar with that particular playstyle. Plus another advantage of N/Mo is that you can easily change to an orders necro if your group is having trouble finding one.

Also, there is room for Blood of the Master in my list in the free slot if you prefer. However, I stated that I like Shadow of Fear in that slot because I can cast it more liberally so enemies attack less often (and therefore do less damage). Less damage means healthier minions and usually, it's about positioning with a minion master anyways. Plus, there are always more bodies to raise enough minions.

The idea with Virulence is the make the enemy die as quickly as possible. If you are using it on grasp that found its way through your minions, you better have 5 rangers trying to kill it. The -8 degen will help bring it down faster. If you are using it on a wurm, the degen works even when it is underground. Pets are there to body block and die, so it doesn't matter if they get diseased. Also, I don't remember the list, but there are hardly any conditions that can pass to a minion that can transfer to you through Verata's Sacrifice that you care as a necromancer.

Carinae · Apr 03, 2006, 08:48 PM // 20:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobrath

Really? Well snap. That's good to know. Gonna go test it out - but I guess you're saying that disease doesn't jump from foe to friend?

I could be wrong, but I think that can be diseased, but it doesn't affect them. But it still spreads.

No undead are affected by disease.

Oh and I would HIGHLY recommend Vengeance instead of Rebirth for the MM. A MM can't afford the loss of all energy that Rebirth requires.

plastichead · Apr 04, 2006, 01:17 AM // 01:17

Wow. Excellent ideas and suggestions from everyone.
I dropped Heal Area and brought Fiends and Death Nova (not very good at spamming Death Nova yet).
Soul Feast saved me on my first run earlier today (the front lines collapsed and everyone died but me). It's castable even while retreating.
I did bring Well of Suffering and it's ok on choke points but I hardly used it so I might switch it for minions maybe (have all 3 animate spells?).
I did catch myself wishing that the rangers would res their pets in battle
so that I could get more bodies, is this line of thought normal? XD

I will experiment on differant secondary proffesions after I get off my lazy a$$ and do the quests.

Bel Ebih · Apr 04, 2006, 02:43 AM // 02:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobrath

Really? Well snap. That's good to know. Gonna go test it out - but I guess you're saying that disease doesn't jump from foe to friend?

Disease doesn't affect minions because they are undead and have no flesh. Same reason why poison and bleeding doesn't affect them. But disease does jump from foe to friend. As long as it's a fleshy and of the same type, it'll spread.

As far as leaving out the Fiends, I actually do this once in a while, but it really depends how good a bomber you are. Horrors/Minions is just body blocking heaven when used in coordination with the team's puller regarding timing and positioning. If done right, you don't really need that second wall of Fiends in the backline since nothing will get past the first wall of Horrors/Minions. And if they get wiped out, you should have Nova'd them already so they will take any stragglers along with them in the blast. Those chain reaction Nova blasts are hella fun. And after the smoke clears you should have enough Horrors/Minions up and running to do it again with the next group.

bobrath · Apr 04, 2006, 03:01 AM // 03:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by plastichead

I did catch myself wishing that the rangers would res their pets in battle
so that I could get more bodies, is this line of thought normal? XD

My best friend in Tombs run is the Ranger that keeps shouting "REZ PETS". Yes it does take that ranger out of skill usage for some seconds, but with pets rezing and dieing... your soul reaping and army just go insane. So you'd like to see a balance between super active rezing on pets and ranger how forget em and keep up the barraging.

GooD KaRmA · Apr 04, 2006, 05:01 AM // 05:01

Personally I'd rather have that ranger spamming Barrage Every 1.5 seconds then to lose his skills for 10 then another 10 when the pet dies again. You have a ranger hitting up to 6 people with somewhere around 50 per arrow. In 10 seconds he could kill somebody faster then he could rez a pet. Of course pets are important to start the battle but the damage that barrage is doing will make you money in the end. If you have a good ranger he'll sneak up to behind your minions and cast healing spring, you'd be suprised how well it works at keeping your minions alive.